I have a 2010 Crosstour. When driving on the highway long distances the engine will misfire and the engine light comes on. This has happened several times. It also causes the engine to burn oil very quickly. I was told there is a VCM 2 Misfire Recall. I also learned where there is a class action lawsuit over this issue. Honda hooked the car up to their computer but did not get a code for the misfire. They told me without a code they can't fix the problem. My question is, if there is a recall and a lawsuit, and my engine keeps misfiring why won't they fix it when they know what needs to be repaired? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! What can I do about getting it repaired? I'm super frustrated over this! Thanks!
VCM 2 Misfire Recall
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We all want Honda to fix every problem we have by means of a recall. Unfortunately there are probably hundreds of reasons why a car can have a misfire. This is exactly why dealerships don’t like average people to have access to recall information. When I was a service manager I can’t tell you how many people came in demanding that we fix their car under some recall that had nothing to do with their vehicle and then went on to call the owner of the dealership, then the zone office and on and on up the ladder. Honda has very strict rules about what can and cannot be fixed under a recall. If a Honda dealership fixes anything as a recall that is not a recall, they will get charged back by Honda.
Your question: My question is, if there is a recall and a lawsuit, and my engine keeps misfiring why won't they fix it when they know what needs to be repaired?
The answer is: Lots of engines misfire for all sorts of reasons. If your vehicle needs repair, take it to the Honda dealer and ask them to fix it. If you continue to allow the misfiring, you are likely going to do more damage such as a catalytic converter.
Your question: My question is, if there is a recall and a lawsuit, and my engine keeps misfiring why won't they fix it when they know what needs to be repaired?
The answer is: Lots of engines misfire for all sorts of reasons. If your vehicle needs repair, take it to the Honda dealer and ask them to fix it. If you continue to allow the misfiring, you are likely going to do more damage such as a catalytic converter.
Not to repeat what Crash said so I will get straight to my questions..
While the dealer may not have found a misfire code, if your check engine light came on, their would have been a code stored. What was it?
While it is true that a misfire can damage a catalytic converter, the opposite can also be true. Had a car that would stutter and miss at high speed or under heavy load. It was a faulty converter. Once fixed, the engine issue vanished.
My point, like stated before, a misfire can happen for a great many reasons not related to the issue related to the recall. Get the root cause of the issue found out and fixed.
While the dealer may not have found a misfire code, if your check engine light came on, their would have been a code stored. What was it?
While it is true that a misfire can damage a catalytic converter, the opposite can also be true. Had a car that would stutter and miss at high speed or under heavy load. It was a faulty converter. Once fixed, the engine issue vanished.
My point, like stated before, a misfire can happen for a great many reasons not related to the issue related to the recall. Get the root cause of the issue found out and fixed.
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JOsworth – good points. I think we can all agree on what the first step is:
Find out what the code is!
There will most always be a code in memory (even if your check engine light is off). Many auto parts stores for FREE will plug in and read your codes. Once we know what the code is, we can then move to step two.
Keep in mind that knowing the code does not always solve the problem. The code points you in the direction of the problem. For example you could have a code that says Misfire cylinder #2. Well, is that a VCM misfire? A faulty spark plug? Or one of many other issues. The point being: trouble codes point to the fault, but not always the problem.
Find out what the code is!
There will most always be a code in memory (even if your check engine light is off). Many auto parts stores for FREE will plug in and read your codes. Once we know what the code is, we can then move to step two.
Keep in mind that knowing the code does not always solve the problem. The code points you in the direction of the problem. For example you could have a code that says Misfire cylinder #2. Well, is that a VCM misfire? A faulty spark plug? Or one of many other issues. The point being: trouble codes point to the fault, but not always the problem.
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A miss can occur without setting a code. Your OBDII does not have sensors on everything on your engine. If you have poor fuel in your car. It is possible that this will not set a code. Some vacuum leaks will not set a code. Basically, your engine will set a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) if the misfire rate exceeds a certain value that may cause emissions to increase.
Random misfires are another type of misfire that can be hard to nail down. Random misfires that jump around from one cylinder to another may be caused by a lean fuel condition or a weak spark. The challenge here is figuring out what is upsetting the fuel mixture or robbing the spark.
The underlying cause is often a vacuum leak in the intake manifold or one behind the throttle body that allows unmetered air to bypass the air flow sensor. A lean misfire can also be caused by an EGR valve that is leaking or not fully closing due to carbon deposits under the EGR valve seat. There are many other possibilities too.
Let me ask a few questions that can help diagnosis:
Has the misfire happened over various fuel tanks of gas? Are you getting your fuel from a reliable source? Do you put any additives in the tank?
Has any work been done on your vehicle? Tune up? Fuel filter? Air Filter? Plugs? Or anything else? If so, who did the work?
What is the VIN of your vehicle? So we can check specific TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins).
Have you noticed specifically when the misfire occurs? At what speed? Going uphill or downhill? With a load on the engine? During a rainstorm? Etc. Etc.
How many miles on your vehicle?
Who services your vehicle on a regular basis? The dealer, independent garage, or someone else?
This should be a good start.
NOTE: Honda dealers are obligated to check every Honda vehicle and perform a recall on any Honda that the factory states requires a recall performed. There are very strict rules and legal liability should Honda fail to perform a recall. For example: If you get into an accident because Honda failed to perform a recall, then the dealership could be liable. Honda wants all cars to get the recalls they need and the Honda dealership gets paid by Honda for performing these recalls. This is why if you come in for just an oil change, they will scan your Honda vehicle to see if there are any outstanding recalls so that they can perform the recall. I cannot think of ANY reason why ANY Honda dealership would not want to perform a recall. Again, from what I have seen, every Honda dealership goes out of their way to perform ALL the recalls on every Honda vehicle.
I remember once when I was working for Pontiac, a Fiero came in for an oil change. No different than Honda, we were obligated to scan this vehicle for recalls. This vehicle had a long list of recalls. This customer was in our service department for two days while we performed all the recalls. Because these were safety recalls, we were not allowed to let him drive the vehicle away until we performed these recalls. We did put him into a rental vehicle. He came in for only an oil change but left with over $3000 of parts and service on his vehicle because of a recall. All manufacturers have the same policy about recalls.
Random misfires are another type of misfire that can be hard to nail down. Random misfires that jump around from one cylinder to another may be caused by a lean fuel condition or a weak spark. The challenge here is figuring out what is upsetting the fuel mixture or robbing the spark.
The underlying cause is often a vacuum leak in the intake manifold or one behind the throttle body that allows unmetered air to bypass the air flow sensor. A lean misfire can also be caused by an EGR valve that is leaking or not fully closing due to carbon deposits under the EGR valve seat. There are many other possibilities too.
Let me ask a few questions that can help diagnosis:
Has the misfire happened over various fuel tanks of gas? Are you getting your fuel from a reliable source? Do you put any additives in the tank?
Has any work been done on your vehicle? Tune up? Fuel filter? Air Filter? Plugs? Or anything else? If so, who did the work?
What is the VIN of your vehicle? So we can check specific TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins).
Have you noticed specifically when the misfire occurs? At what speed? Going uphill or downhill? With a load on the engine? During a rainstorm? Etc. Etc.
How many miles on your vehicle?
Who services your vehicle on a regular basis? The dealer, independent garage, or someone else?
This should be a good start.
NOTE: Honda dealers are obligated to check every Honda vehicle and perform a recall on any Honda that the factory states requires a recall performed. There are very strict rules and legal liability should Honda fail to perform a recall. For example: If you get into an accident because Honda failed to perform a recall, then the dealership could be liable. Honda wants all cars to get the recalls they need and the Honda dealership gets paid by Honda for performing these recalls. This is why if you come in for just an oil change, they will scan your Honda vehicle to see if there are any outstanding recalls so that they can perform the recall. I cannot think of ANY reason why ANY Honda dealership would not want to perform a recall. Again, from what I have seen, every Honda dealership goes out of their way to perform ALL the recalls on every Honda vehicle.
I remember once when I was working for Pontiac, a Fiero came in for an oil change. No different than Honda, we were obligated to scan this vehicle for recalls. This vehicle had a long list of recalls. This customer was in our service department for two days while we performed all the recalls. Because these were safety recalls, we were not allowed to let him drive the vehicle away until we performed these recalls. We did put him into a rental vehicle. He came in for only an oil change but left with over $3000 of parts and service on his vehicle because of a recall. All manufacturers have the same policy about recalls.
Has the misfire happened over various fuel tanks of gas? Yes it has
Are you getting your fuel from a reliable source? I get gas from the gas station that the Honda place told me to go to. They said it is the highest quality gas.
Do you put any additives in the tank? I do not.
Has any work been done on your vehicle? Tune up? Fuel filter? Air Filter? Plugs? Or anything else? If so, who did the work? I have had several things done to the car. Tune up yes. I'm not sure about the fuel or air filter and no on the plugs. I should also mention that it is burning oil very quickly. I have to refill the oil tank about every 2 weeks.
What is the VIN of your vehicle? So we can check specific TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins). 5J6TF1H59AL002776
Have you noticed specifically when the misfire occurs? At what speed? Going uphill or downhill? With a load on the engine? During a rainstorm? Etc. Etc.
The misfire only occurs when i'm on highway after I've been driving for a couple of hours. It has never happened other than in this situation. I can drive down the highway for an hour and 45 minutes and it doesn't happen. It has happened 5 times. The engine light will come on but if I turn the car off and back on the engine light is off.
How many miles on your vehicle? About 89,000
Who services your vehicle on a regular basis? The dealer, independent garage, or someone else? I take it to an independent dealership that only works on Hondas.
Thank you so much for your help!
Are you getting your fuel from a reliable source? I get gas from the gas station that the Honda place told me to go to. They said it is the highest quality gas.
Do you put any additives in the tank? I do not.
Has any work been done on your vehicle? Tune up? Fuel filter? Air Filter? Plugs? Or anything else? If so, who did the work? I have had several things done to the car. Tune up yes. I'm not sure about the fuel or air filter and no on the plugs. I should also mention that it is burning oil very quickly. I have to refill the oil tank about every 2 weeks.
What is the VIN of your vehicle? So we can check specific TSBs (Technical Service Bulletins). 5J6TF1H59AL002776
Have you noticed specifically when the misfire occurs? At what speed? Going uphill or downhill? With a load on the engine? During a rainstorm? Etc. Etc.
The misfire only occurs when i'm on highway after I've been driving for a couple of hours. It has never happened other than in this situation. I can drive down the highway for an hour and 45 minutes and it doesn't happen. It has happened 5 times. The engine light will come on but if I turn the car off and back on the engine light is off.
How many miles on your vehicle? About 89,000
Who services your vehicle on a regular basis? The dealer, independent garage, or someone else? I take it to an independent dealership that only works on Hondas.
Thank you so much for your help!
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I checked your VIN and there are no active recalls currently for your vehicle.
My suggestion would be:
If your tune up was done in the last 12 months or 12,000 miles, I would return back to whoever did it and ask them to recheck things and look for a misfire. Normally most shops warranty their work for 12/12, but you would need to check your receipt or the shops website to see their actual warranty. Then again, the misfire could be something unrelated to the work they did. A common misfire at highway speeds can often be caused by as something as simple as a partially clogged air or fuel filter. When not quite enough air or fuel can get through at highway speeds, the vehicle will misfire.
If it has been longer than 12/12, then I would suggest that you take it to the Honda dealer and ask them to diagnose it and then you can decide whether or not to have it repaired. Yes, you will likely need to pay for the diagnosis, but often they will apply that charge to the repairs, should you wish to have it repaired.
My suggestion would be:
If your tune up was done in the last 12 months or 12,000 miles, I would return back to whoever did it and ask them to recheck things and look for a misfire. Normally most shops warranty their work for 12/12, but you would need to check your receipt or the shops website to see their actual warranty. Then again, the misfire could be something unrelated to the work they did. A common misfire at highway speeds can often be caused by as something as simple as a partially clogged air or fuel filter. When not quite enough air or fuel can get through at highway speeds, the vehicle will misfire.
If it has been longer than 12/12, then I would suggest that you take it to the Honda dealer and ask them to diagnose it and then you can decide whether or not to have it repaired. Yes, you will likely need to pay for the diagnosis, but often they will apply that charge to the repairs, should you wish to have it repaired.
Holy cow that is a ton of oil consumption. When you say you have to refill the oil every two weeks, please don't tell me that it takes a full four plus quarts before you add it... Running it that dry will most definitely cause major problems.
I will assume you add when it is only a quart low at the most... in that case, your oil consumption is extremely high and needs to be addressed first and foremost. The miss fire can wait.
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Currently , In the Honda dealership with a misfire issue. 2010 Crosstour. 1st time in the catalytic converter code , then the 2nd time misfire codes .. Seems these cars have engine issues. Is it worth replacing / rebuilding the engine?
Cost for this ? Unfortunate as the exterior and interior are mint. 179.000km Did you resolve your misfire issue and how?
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I would not let anyone tear into the engine...., yet, before trying this. There are a few steps you can take to try and get your V6 up and going, trouble code free.
- Most important, Disable the VCM. I use S-VCM made in Canada. This will keep your V6 running on all 6 cylinders 100% of the time.
- Air Filter replace if needed
- MAF sensor, remove and clean. Spray a few short bursts of CRC Electronic Cleaner or MAF Cleaner directly into the electrodes. Let dry thoroughly before re-installing.
- Air intake hose leak free, clamps tight. Inspect for cracks.
- Replace spark plugs if old or fouled. Ensure these are NGK Laser Iridiums or Ruthenium HX. Lesser quality plugs can lead to misfires.
- Inspect spark plug tubes, should be dry and oil free. Replace valve cover gaskets, grommets and tube seals if oil is present in tubes. Use OEM only.
- Replace or clean any oily coils. CRC Electronic Cleaner is ok to use. Do not soak.
- Replace O2 sensors if a trouble code specifically states there is an O2 sensor problem.
- Replace the PCV valve if original
- (Last, if needed)Replace or clean EGR valve, clean EGR pipe.
- Use a FULL synthetic engine oil only. No semi synthetic, blends or Extended Performance oils. These are more susceptible to thermal breakdown.
- Use a Top Tier 87 octane fuel (best) or injector cleaner if using untreated gasoline.
- Italian tune up, take your CT on some long highway speed drives. With the VCM off, allowing all 6 cylinders to fire, this will help clean those dirty cylinders.
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Thank you soo much for your information . slight oil leak on the spool valve so i replaced the below issues :
daria
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I understand this is a relatively older thread, but your answer makes zero sense for the consumer. Honda won't even let you PAY to fox your car unless a computer tells them what's wrong- I have misfires CONSTANTLY while I am driving, and because there are no codes I am told there's nothing they can do. This has actually created a couple dangerous driving situations for me- and Honda doesn't care, even though I have addressed concerned over premature wear of other parts due to this.
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A fair question:
Honda is not in the guessing game. What would happen if the service tech spent 8 hours and hundreds of dollars on parts “trying” to fix your vehicle and the problem is still there? You obviously would not be happy. We use to get customers coming in with intermittent problems. They would be upset when we could not duplicate the problem. How much time (which is another word for money) should we spend to try and find the problem? The factory warranty will not give the dealership unlimited amounts of time (money again) to search for these types of problems. We understand that the customer is not making up these things, but I remember once a woman brought in a vehicle for a popping sound at 40 mph. Turns out after spending many hours on this vehicle it was a pencil stuck in her defroster duct causing the noise. Vehicles are designed to keep track of backfires and other problems to help the technician find the problem. There is gray area where some backfiring is normal due to poor gas, slightly worn parts, or other problems. Honda can only tell these customers to keep driving the vehicle and it will either go away, like a tank of bad gas, or it will get worse and set a code. At that point with a code, they can now try and determine the problem.
Honda is not in the guessing game. What would happen if the service tech spent 8 hours and hundreds of dollars on parts “trying” to fix your vehicle and the problem is still there? You obviously would not be happy. We use to get customers coming in with intermittent problems. They would be upset when we could not duplicate the problem. How much time (which is another word for money) should we spend to try and find the problem? The factory warranty will not give the dealership unlimited amounts of time (money again) to search for these types of problems. We understand that the customer is not making up these things, but I remember once a woman brought in a vehicle for a popping sound at 40 mph. Turns out after spending many hours on this vehicle it was a pencil stuck in her defroster duct causing the noise. Vehicles are designed to keep track of backfires and other problems to help the technician find the problem. There is gray area where some backfiring is normal due to poor gas, slightly worn parts, or other problems. Honda can only tell these customers to keep driving the vehicle and it will either go away, like a tank of bad gas, or it will get worse and set a code. At that point with a code, they can now try and determine the problem.
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