Engine Oil 0W20

I at first had a bit of difficulty understanding the oil requirements for our CT. On page 333 of our owner’s manual under RECOMMENDED ENGINE OIL Honda states: “Always use premium-grade 0W-20 detergent oil displaying the API Certification Seal.” Using the word ‘Always’ is pretty strong language. But then on the next page under SYNTHETIC OIL, Honda states: “You may use a synthetic motor oil if it meets the same requirements given for a conventional motor oil;” I was not aware that 0W-20 could be found as a conventional motor oil???

A conventional oil by definition is an oil refined from petroleum crude oil that has been pumped from the ground. Meaning basically, a NON - Synthetic oil.

In doing a search for Honda Motor Oil 0W-20 I could only find Honda Part Number 08798-9036 which is listed as a synthetic blend (not a full synthetic) selling for about $5 per quart. I suppose you could call a synthetic blend a conventional oil?? The owner’s manual recommends Honda Motor Oil, which means Honda is recommending a synthetic blend. Why didn’t Honda just use a full synthetic? Anyway, I have to think that for proper break in of the engine, Honda did not want a full synthetic for whatever reason and instead is using a synthetic blend to help break in their engines. It bothered me that occasionally on various forums I would see a Honda owner complaining that even after 10 or 15 thousand miles, their engine is not properly broken in.

Until recently, 0W-20 was difficult to find. I know I have looked in most auto parts stores and such, but it is appearing on the shelf more and more. Wal-Mart had a 5 quart container of Mobil 1 for around $24.

I just changed the oil and filter on my CT. I used Pennzoil 5W20 (conventional oil) as my choice of oil and then also used a WIX Oil filter $8. I only have about 2,000 miles on my CT. I will eventually switch from 5W20 conventional Pennzoil to synthetic soon.

With the price and availability of 0W-20 now the same as 5W-20 oil, I don’t see why I would want to use 5W-20? Why should I not follow what Honda recommends and take advantage of the .1 better fuel mileages due to the thinner oil? I suppose if I was in a pretty much year round hot climate that would be justification to move to 5W-20 or even a thicker viscosity. For my mix of climate here in the Midwest, I think 0W-20 will be just fine.


Hope this explains the confusion in the owners manual a bit.

accordy2g said:

I actually went 8480 miles before my first oil change ws needed. Then again I drive literally 7 miles a day to and from work, but good to know that the car tells me when it needs an oil change rather than the standard "every 3k-5k" thing of the past.

Click to expand...

I know I'm going to come off like a jerk here, but you couldn't be more wrong. There's a reason different maintenance schedules exist when it comes to short-distance driving. I'm going to save you from my typically long response and, instead, share with you a quote from a not-so-easily-accessed SAE oil report...

I will; however, preface this with the fact that all too often, people observe their engine temp gauge and assume when the needle starts to move or reaches normal operating temperature, that the engine is warmed up. WRONG WRONG WRONG

Triple that time... Even quadruple that time and you start to get close. The exception is the old-school boxer style oil-cooled engines. But then even those don't even account for internal engine expansion and so on.

Sorry, I'm doing it aren't I?

Anyway... Here it is.

From:

Assessment of Correlation Between Bench Wear Test Results and Engine Cylinder Wear, Short-Trip Service



"Since stop-and-go driving most often does not permit the engine to reach efficient temperatures, it is actually among the most severe types of car operation. Under these conditions the rate of oil contamination is high, and the ability of the oil to overcome the effects of the contamination is low. Low-temperature driving, short runs, and light-load operation all promote water accumulation, fuel dilution, and the formation of sludge, varnish, and corrosive acids."

Am I the only one failing to see exactly what you're calling the OP "wrong" for? Are you chastising him for abiding by the built in service minder for oil change notifications? He didn't say he was going past them. As I read these posts consecutively I just am not picking up how your viewpoint is different than his. He drives short commutes and said he's glad not to have to abide by the routinized 3-5k schedules of the past and instead just pay attention to what the vehicle tells him.

PS - most cars don't have an oil temp gauge, they have a water temp gauge.

PPS - most water temp gauges function more as "dummy lights" (see one fluctuate a lot?) they are tuned like this intentionally so people don't think something is wrong with their radiator as it varies between 80c-125c or so coolant temp.

PPPS - which "old school oil cooled boxer engines" are you referring to? Pretty much all boxer engines till at least the '60s were air cooled (BMW, aviation engines, and most dominantly VW). I ask this because I'm actually interested historically if I'm missing something. . .and if you picked up this info at Jay Leno's house you get extra credit.

-ace

jay1622 said:

I know I'm going to come off like a jerk here, but you couldn't be more wrong. There's a reason different maintenance schedules exist when it comes to short-distance driving. I'm going to save you from my typically long response and, instead, share with you a quote from a not-so-easily-accessed SAE oil report...

I will; however, preface this with the fact that all too often, people observe their engine temp gauge and assume when the needle starts to move or reaches normal operating temperature, that the engine is warmed up. WRONG WRONG WRONG

Triple that time... Even quadruple that time and you start to get close. The exception is the old-school boxer style oil-cooled engines. But then even those don't even account for internal engine expansion and so on.

Sorry, I'm doing it aren't I?

Anyway... Here it is.

From:

Assessment of Correlation Between Bench Wear Test Results and Engine Cylinder Wear, Short-Trip Service



"Since stop-and-go driving most often does not permit the engine to reach efficient temperatures, it is actually among the most severe types of car operation. Under these conditions the rate of oil contamination is high, and the ability of the oil to overcome the effects of the contamination is low. Low-temperature driving, short runs, and light-load operation all promote water accumulation, fuel dilution, and the formation of sludge, varnish, and corrosive acids."

Click to expand...

Ever check out http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ ?

You sort of have to be a chemist to fully understand what the convos are there, but it is an extraordinarily active forum given the nerdy level at which those guys can talk. It's very common on there for guys to post lab results of their oils and talk about it.

There's this chart that the Honda Dealers now have


And I'm not sure if the 0w-20 thing is as a direct result of the ConocoPhillips switch over or not, but yes the new Honda Genuine factory fill 0w-20 is a blend (p/n 08798-9036). It's confusing because they have at least 2 other 0w-20s, one of which was a fully syn tweaked for the Insight, and one of which is a fully syn alternative to the blend.

If you're not confused yet, hold on. . .because Idemitsu, a prior OEM supplier, now makes a 0w-20 fully synthetic that "fits Honda OEM specs."

And ConocoPhillips has an oil under the Kendall GT-1 brand that is "recommended in Asian OEM vehicles such as Toyota and Honda." This oil may or may not be the Honda branded one, but I don't think it is.

The service manual recommends honda p/n 08798-9029, which is being phased out for 9036, both 0w-20 synthetic blends. However, it (thankfully) has the rather loose recommendation of "any 0w-20 that bears the API certification seal and is labeled for gasoline engines."

Here's a list of all API 0w-20 oils.

Personally, once I do my first oil change I'll probably do one of the two Mobil 1 synthetics that are available in 0w-20.

-ace

jay1622 said:

I'm a wrench, not a chemist, but I would like to hear if anyone with REAL knowledge on the subject knows the difference (better/worse) between the oil mentioned by Classic Captain and Mobil-1's 0w-20. Here's a reference to Mobil's... Click, open and scroll down to properties.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-20_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx

Click to expand...

Aceman said:

Am I the only one failing to see exactly what you're calling the OP "wrong" for? Are you chastising him for abiding by the built in service minder for oil change notifications? He didn't say he was going past them. As I read these posts consecutively I just am not picking up how your viewpoint is different than his. He drives short commutes and said he's glad not to have to abide by the routinized 3-5k schedules of the past and instead just pay attention to what the vehicle tells him.

PS - most cars don't have an oil temp gauge, they have a water temp gauge.

PPS - most water temp gauges function more as "dummy lights" (see one fluctuate a lot?) they are tuned like this intentionally so people don't think something is wrong with their radiator as it varies between 80c-125c or so coolant temp.

PPPS - which "old school oil cooled boxer engines" are you referring to? Pretty much all boxer engines till at least the '60s were air cooled (BMW, aviation engines, and most dominantly VW). I ask this because I'm actually interested historically if I'm missing something. . .and if you picked up this info at Jay Leno's house you get extra credit.

-ace

Click to expand...

Ma's Crosstour was the OP of this thread, but the person I was writing to and the one I quoted was accordy2g (Response #14). In that response, accordy2g indicated that due to the short distance driven on a daily basis (7 miles roundtrip-to and from work), that it is acceptable to go the usual distance between oil changes. My interpretation of his post is corroborated by the fact that the first oil change was conducted at 8480.

As good as the maintenance minder is touted to be, it is not capable of determining the life of the oil; rather, it guesses. Please go back and read the referenced portion of the SAE report. If you cannot comprehend what it is that they're trying to say in that one portion of the report, then any further conversation is in vain.

Nobody is chastising anybody here; kind of strong wording, no? My response was simply an advisement that their idea of driving short trips is incorrect while providing a relevant reference to support my position. Personally, I consider myself a humble person, so when I come out and say someone is wrong about something, I do so with a considerable amount of respect and humility. So much so, I found it important to quote one of the best research papers to date, which was conducted by SAE on a subject that includes data particularly on why constantly driving short distances poses extra risks to the inner workings of an IC engine. You don't know me on a personal level, so I can appreciate your candor and your want to stand-up for a fellow user.

While I would love to commit to copyright infringement and post the entire report on this website, I can't. The maintenance minder is great for the layman, but it's nowhere close to perfect. Also, is it not safe to say someone who takes the next step and joins an informational forum such as this one deserves the best and most accurate information possible?

http://papers.sae.org/2000-01-2947/

Hey buddy - take a few deep breaths. . .we're all here for the same reason, we like our cars and we like a fun community to share them with. I truly didn't understand the reaction of your earlier post so I questioned, in as non-attacking as a way as I could, what point you were trying to make.

If you really think that acceptable online forum behavior includes asking people if they think they can comprehend things or not, well, that's a real shame.

There's no "standing up" necessary because the only person I was questioning was you! If you were unclear you could have PM'd me. But you threw out a bunch of points that I thought others might benefit from some clarification.

I could get down to this silly level now and comment about your social skills, passive aggressiveness, explosive reactions to things, wild speculative statements about historic boxer engines (wtf?), or lack of knowledge on water temperature gauges and desire to type words repeatedly in caps like we're some kind of idiots, or a million other things, but I'm not going to - that's not what I'm here for, that is seriously child's stuff. I even questioned you sincerely and pleasantly about the boxer engine thing, I wasn't giving you the perceived "welcome to attica" beating that must have provoked your awkward, hostile response.

I'm not going to take that kind of stuff personally, but I'd also really like to belong to a forum where a post like this would never be necessary.

In the early days, before State Farm Insurance had the motto "Like a good neighbor. . ." they tried out, "Life's too short to be a prick," and while it failed miserably in focus groups it's one I live by.

This is already more energy than I account for in my weekly Chi budget in this department, so - here's my cards, I'm folding, I'm out.

-ace

PS - I tried to pull up that last URL and it's asking me to buy this report. I lost my original copy, it's filed away with my old Highlights magazines, is there another way to read this? You know what, it's ok - the need to read a "not-so-easily-accessed-SAE report. . ." is waning quickly for me. The bloom is off that rose.