DIY: Acura TL AWD rear sway bar to Crosstour upgrade

53552 Views 79 Replies 27 Participants Last post by skylize, 27 d ago

tlarimer

Discussion Starter · Jan 11, 2014

9

This will cover removing the 2011 Crosstour AWD rear sway bar and replacing it with one from a 2011 Acura TL AWD. I believe this will work on Crosstour's 2010-2012, 2WD and AWD, I completed this on my own 2011 Crosstour AWD.

2011 Crosstour AWD rear sway bar size is 15MM:

2011 Acura TL AWD rear sway bar is 20MM:

Parts and tools needed to complete the job:
Acura TL AWD rear sway bar P/N 52300-TK5-A02
Acura TL AWD rear sway bar bushings P/N 52306-TK5-A01 x2
14MM wrench
5MM allen wrench
12MM socket
silicone grease

Start cleaning the threads of the endlinks. Then place 14mm wrench onto endlink bolt, then insert 5mm endlink stud and remove nut from endlink.

Slide endlink stud out of rear sway bar and repeat on the other side.

Using 12mm socket to reach the 4 bolts, 2 per side, holding the d-link brackets/rear sway bar bushings and loosen them, I left mine in the bracket and let the swat bar drop, then moved to the other side.

Now remove the swaybar, it took a little rotating, but it comes out without having to remove anything, I didn't even jack up the car.

Rear sway bars side by side comparison:

Install new rear sway bar bushings onto new rear sway bar, I used a dab of silicone grease on each one to make sure it doesn't squeak. Make sure to install the new bushings in the same direction and orientation as the old one, making note of the factory cut opening.

Next slide the new rear sway bar in place, slide the d-link brackets over the rear sway bar bushings and attach it using the 4 12mm bolts, torque to OEM specs.

Now reattach the endlinks and torque to OEM specs.

That's it, you're done. The total cost of this upgrade was:
Parts $75.44
Shipping $10.95
Total $86.39

Car feels much better on the road and in corners, this was my major complaint and I believe the car should have come with this bigger rear sway bar from the factory.

Hope this helps somebody out.

Tim

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Crashmaster

· #21 · Jun 10, 2014 (Edited)

All things come with a price or a trade off when changing the rear sway bar away from stock OEM. Make your decision carefully.

In checking the Accord forum, there have been many that changed their Accord rear sway bar with the Acura bar and also had the bar touching the frame in two places, even though it caused no problem or noise. Others on the Accord forum went for a different sway bar manufactured by Progressive Auto. Progressive states their bar fits the 09-13 Acura TSX and the 08-13 Honda Accord. People on the Accord forum say this is a much better fit, bent just slightly different and does not hit the frame like the Acura bar. Besides that, this bar is 22mm (the Acura bar is 20mm) and has two adjustments for ride control.

The price is $174.25, but right now they have a 20% off sale. Who ever heard of a sale on rear sway bars? Either way, that puts this bar very close in price to the Acura sway bar. Anyway, they have great instructions right on their web site with lots of pictures. This bar comes highly recommended by the high performance people on the Accord forum. Looks like a very easy install.
Their website is at: http://progressauto.com/products/sfID1/12/sfID2/34/sfID3/90/productID/615

Keep in mind that changing from a stock 17mm sway bar to anything bigger WILL cause your vehicle to ride harsher (the thicker the bar the harsher the ride) over bumps. You need to decide the balance of harsh ride to cornering that you want. Personally, I don’t race, street race, and only rarely push my CT hard; and therefore cannot justify changing the sway bar and risk comfort. If I was a teenager, heck the sway bars would have been changed out the first week. Yes, there is a Heavy Duty sway bar replacement for the front too.

Either way, you have your choice of the Acura or Progressive (above) sway bars for your CT. A thicker rear sway bar will give you better high performance handling from your CT, but for everyday driving, you really won’t notice the change in the sway bar. Also remember for us old folks, the thicker the sway bar the harsher the ride.

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Justice

· #22 · Jun 11, 2014

The sway bar change has not made my car ride harsher. If anything, the car feels far more stable, even when driving in normal traffic conditions. There is less body lean or bounce when hitting bumps, cracks or holes in the road. I can feel less of the roads variances, and do feel more confident in the approach I take with the car, again, even in normal traffic situations.
I wonder why some people are having contact and others are not.
There is plenty of space between my new sway bar and the chasis. It's not even close to any cross members.
I wonder if the model years differ in this part of the car between 10/11 vs. 12/13/14.
I paid $105.12 for my Acura Sway Bar, from an online Acura Parts Dealer. The Bushings were $4.15 each. Shipping was $11.88 to my door.
I paid $125.30 total plus a $5 tube of lube.
Here's the site I got it from. The had to special order it, so it took about 10 days to arrive at my door.
http://www.dchautomotiveparts.com/oe-acura/52300tk5a02?search_str=52300-TK5-A02
http://www.dchautomotiveparts.com/oe-acura/52306tk5a01?search_str=52306-TK5-A01

If I had to do it all over again, maybe I would spend the extra $15 (with the 20% off sale) to get the 22mm Progressive Bar, but I am really happy with this mod, and the way my car feels and performs with the Acura Bar.
I am 42, and most of the time I'm more concerned with my gas mileage rather than how much horsepower I have... but that doesn't seem to be stopping me from having fun with my ride and making it ride better.

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Crashmaster

· #23 · Jun 11, 2014 (Edited)

Justice

Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Yes, the suspension will not likely be as firm as I made it out to be. The Accord forum has numerous people stating that small bumps are much more noticeable with a thicker sway bar.

Sway bars (whether stock or aftermarket) accomplish two things. A rear sway bar is a torsional spring that connects the left rear wheel to the right rear wheel. If both wheels move up or down together (such as going over a speed bump) it imparts virtually no resistance. If the wheels move in contrary motion, the sway bar will resist the motion in proportion to the thickness of the sway bar. A thicker rear sway bar must affect the rear suspension and make the ride somewhat harsher. You would notice it more over smaller bumps or an uneven paved road.

What happens if one has a sway bar that is too stiff?

At this point, you will have lost side-to-side independence in the wheels. A very heavy duty sway bar will prevent the lower control arm from fully moving up and down independently and you will have a very stiff (you could say harsh) suspension. Obviously it would have to be a VERY thick sway bar.

The stiffer you make the anti-sway bar(s), the flatter the car's cornering response will be. In race cars, the limiting factor often becomes the tires. A well-tuned race car will often have so much roll stiffness that they can lift up a wheel. Obviously when you lift up a wheel off the ground, the next thing that can happen is either a loss of control, spin out or perhaps even rolling the car.

I agree that maybe adding a SLIGHTLY bigger sway bar to improve some of the body roll and understeer is OK....but the factory made this choice for a reason, being; so the average mom & pop driver does not lose control of the car with too much oversteer. If you have ever looked at a steering geometry book you will know the massive amount of knowledge required for designing, changing or tweaking a suspension. The R&D (research & development), engineers and computers that Honda utilizes to set up our Crosstour suspension is beyond belief.

Changing to a larger sway bar; you will feel the stiffness when you change to a 19mm or 22mm and you will end up with increased oversteer and the change will happen abruptly. The Crosstour is not a race car. Most passenger cars are designed to have mild understeer as it is safer (for a passenger car). Honda did not engineer the TL sway bars for our Crosstour. They designed them for an Acura TL. On the Accord forum, there are even accounts of some users who have wrecked their vehicle due to too much oversteer after installing a larger sway bar.

One other thing about changing your rear sway bar:

Say it’s a rainy night, you wife or daughter has your vehicle and is on the highway. She makes a lane change and due to the oversteer she loses control of the vehicle. Let’s say that this was a multi-car accident with a few people hurt. Now let’s say your insurance company hires me or someone else to inspect the vehicle and a deliberate suspension modification has been found. A change that likely caused the accident. What do you think will happen next?

I come across vehicle modifications all the time in my work. Vehicles that are modified are scrutinized much more by the police and insurance companies. People that work in this business are aware of brakes, suspension or horsepower modifications that can change and can cause accidents. I did one a few weeks ago where a fellow added a Brembo Gran Turismo Big Brake Kit for $4600 and was so anxious to drive his vehicle that he didn't bleed the brakes correctly and quickly wrecked his car.

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zvg

· #24 · Jun 15, 2014

Sway bars and insurance agents

Yeah, that's true. Just the other day I drove by a rollover scene on the highway that had traffic down to a crawl. The car had rolled multiple times and had landed on it's wheels in a mangled heap down the embankment. As I approached I could see a guy in khaki pants and a State Farm jacket on his hands and knees looking up under the rear end. I couldn't tell what he was doing at first but then I saw he had a caliper in his hand. I looked quizzically for a moment, and as I rolled by, I asked the trooper what the deal was. Apparently the State Farm guy--I think his name was Jake--had noticed that the rear sway bar looked to be nearly 20mm in diameter, and he knew that didn't seem right for such a grocery hauler, so he referenced his Rear Sway Bar Diameters for Insurance Claims Agents pocket guide and sure enough, the car was only designed to handle a 14mm sway bar. Claim denied.

True story.

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GL84

· #25 · Jun 15, 2014

zvg said:
Yeah, that's true. Just the other day I drove by a rollover scene on the highway that had traffic down to a crawl. The car had rolled multiple times and had landed on it's wheels in a mangled heap down the embankment. As I approached I could see a guy in khaki pants and a State Farm jacket on his hands and knees looking up under the rear end. I couldn't tell what he was doing at first but then I saw he had a caliper in his hand. I looked quizzically for a moment, and as I rolled by, I asked the trooper what the deal was. Apparently the State Farm guy--I think his name was Jake--had noticed that the rear sway bar looked to be nearly 20mm in diameter, and he knew that didn't seem right for such a grocery hauler, so he referenced his Rear Sway Bar Diameters for Insurance Claims Agents pocket guide and sure enough, the car was only designed to handle a 14mm sway bar. Claim denied.

True story.

Do you think they would deny the claim even if it wasn't your fault?

If someone hit you from behind, and lets say you get out of control... would they still get you because your movement patterns (when out of control) might be different because of the sway bars?

Crashmaster

· #26 · Jun 15, 2014 (Edited)

A few problems with this ‘true’ story.

1) Vehicle inspections are never done at the accident site. They are taken to the crime lab or police impound.

2) State Farm does not do their own accident investigations. That would bias the reporting for court. They might send out an investigator to witness the inspection though.

If a vehicle would make a lane change and then go out of control; first thing would be to speak with the driver and witnesses, who hopefully would give a clue to what caused the accident. If the driver said something like: the rear of the car tried to spin around to the front, like fishtailing, that would be a strong clue.

If someone died or got very hurt, or if State Farm or the Police had any belief the driver was lying or there was a vehicle malfunction, they would call for an inspection. That is where I come in. We would do a thorough inspection of the vehicle, paying very close attention to the tires, steering and suspension. We would look for worn parts, recently replaced parts, recalls, TSB’s, wrong size tires, alignment, balance, ABS, wheel sensors, and more. If any steering or suspension part looked recently replaced, or of I noticed blue poly sway bar bushings, or a PROGRESSIVE sticker on the sway bar, those would be pretty strong clues that the sway bar was not OEM.

Would the sway bars be measured with a caliper? I have checked these things on cars before. It depends on the make model and year of the vehicle. The age of the driver. Other types of cars owned by the driver. The driving history of the driver and other factors. Every accident case is different. I have various types of inspections and some even include checking the torque on every bolt. Again, every accident case is different.

I have been doing vehicle inspections for the local and state police for over 20 years that includes accident investigations, vehicular manslaughter cases, vehicle arson, vehicle theft among other things. I haven't seen everything yet, but getting darn close.

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K3RMiTdot

· #27 · Jun 15, 2014

anyone confirm that the progressive will fit on our cTs?

Crashmaster

· #28 · Jun 16, 2014

From my research they will fit. For that matter, they appear to fit better than the Acura swaybar as this bar will not come into contact with the frame.

I emailed Progressive last week wanting confirmation about exact fit for a Crosstour, but never received a response back.

From the Accord board, they suggest that you set the adjustment loosest to start. You likely will not ever need the tighter adjustment. There are only two adjustments. It might also help to read the installation manual on the Progressive site.

XDreamMachinaX

· #29 · Jun 16, 2014

Would changing of sway bar negate any claim?

11 years ago, I had a solo car accident with my 1996 Accord.

The car was lowered, had strut tower brace put on, maybe even a stiffer sway bar put on, but I don't recall. Car was totaled for going to fast on a freeway interchange, lost control of it, and hit the concrete wall that prevented the car from falling 20 ft. Car was towed home (at my request, so I could change out the rims I had on) insurance paid out the claim. I'm sure any claim inspector, or adjustor, would be able to see that the car was modified beyond stock.

But from earlier posts, it sounded like certain claims may be scrutinized, and should a thicker sway bar be found, the claim may even be denied?

I actually don't have a CT yet, waiting to see what 2015 will be like before buying a CT. Changing the sway bar sounds like the best upgrade that I probably would do, but not at the risk of getting a claim denied...

Crashmaster, or anyone in the know, does one have to worry about insurance claims getting denied for having a stiffer sway bar?

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Crashmaster

· #30 · Jun 16, 2014

XDreamMachinaX – you bring up a good point. So good a point that I had to call a few insurance adjusters that I deal with to get it directly from the horse’s mouth.

The consensus seems to be that that under most insurance contracts, the only liability exclusions are; fraud, intentional acts, organized racing, and vehicle modifications where the modification is in violation of a motor vehicle code (Ex: you remove your headlights and go driving at night and get into an accident) where a claim would be automatically denied. Undisclosed modifications of a vehicle are handled on a case by case decision.

He told me that each insurance company has their own contractual language for claim denial. He also said that even if the insurance company does pay the claim, if there is a vehicle modification that can be traced to the accident, it would leave the owner open for civil litigation or subrogation.

GL84

· #31 · Jun 17, 2014

Crashmaster said:
XDreamMachinaX – you bring up a good point. So good a point that I had to call a few insurance adjusters that I deal with to get it directly from the horse’s mouth.

The consensus seems to be that that under most insurance contracts, the only liability exclusions are; fraud, intentional acts, organized racing, and vehicle modifications where the modification is in violation of a motor vehicle code (Ex: you remove your headlights and go driving at night and get into an accident) where a claim would be automatically denied. Undisclosed modifications of a vehicle are handled on a case by case decision.

He told me that each insurance company has their own contractual language for claim denial. He also said that even if the insurance company does pay the claim, if there is a vehicle modification that can be traced to the accident, it would leave the owner open for civil litigation or subrogation.

Crashmaster, are you suggesting we talk to our insurance company to ask about individual modifications?

Justice

· #32 · Jun 17, 2014

It's really a shame that this thread has taken this direction.
This modification (using the Acura/Honda part that was in the original post) is not nearly as severe as it is being made to sound.
The fact is that my car feels a lot safer this way than it did with the stock swaybar, because the body lean in turns has been minimized or eliminated in most cases. This includes normal highway driving, and driving in city limits.
I have pushed the car hard to test it, and I was impressed and surprised with the results, but this is not how I drive daily or frequently, as I'm sure most Crosstour owners don't either.
Also, The Acura swaybar does not contact any part of my frame or cross members. I have a 2011 Crosstour EX-L V6 4WD (Navi), and I can verify that installed correctly, it does not contact the car except where it mounts.
Also, there are no stickers or numbers on the sway bar (I peeled them off before installation). It is black, like the rest of the parts under the car. After a little road grime, the part is virtually invisible.

Other than my HID low beams, this is the single best modification I have done to this vehicle, and I would recommend it to any Crosstour owner, for the simple fact that the car feels safer, and handles the road far better than it did with the stock rear sway bar.

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GL84

· #33 · Jun 17, 2014

Justice said:
It's really a shame that this thread has taken this direction.
This modification (using the Acura/Honda part that was in the original post) is not nearly as severe as it is being made to sound.
The fact is that my car feels a lot safer this way than it did with the stock swaybar, because the body lean in turns has been minimized or eliminated in most cases. This includes normal highway driving, and driving in city limits.
I have pushed the car hard to test it, and I was impressed and surprised with the results, but this is not how I drive daily or frequently, as I'm sure most Crosstour owners don't either.
Also, The Acura swaybar does not contact any part of my frame or cross members. I have a 2011 Crosstour EX-L V6 4WD (Navi), and I can verify that installed correctly, it does not contact the car except where it mounts.
Also, there are no stickers or numbers on the sway bar (I peeled them off before installation). It is black, like the rest of the parts under the car. After a little road grime, the part is virtually invisible.

Other than my HID low beams, this is the single best modification I have done to this vehicle, and I would recommend it to any Crosstour owner, for the simple fact that the car feels safer, and handles the road far better than it did with the stock rear sway bar.

Well I ordered the Acura part 3-4 days ago (didn't want to get progressives because of the drilling)... I am however interested in the conversation about the Insurance though.

Crashmaster

· #34 · Jun 17, 2014

I was not trying to turn this thread into an insurance thread. I just wanted to make sure that people understand the liability when modifying their Crosstour. Suffice to say that when you modify your vehicle and it changes the handling, braking or steering to a point that causes an accident, it could easily make you liable for damages, including even after the sale of your vehicle. The amount of damages depends on what is written on your individual insurance contract, and in regards to a vehicle sale, disclosure.

Yes, most accidents on just a sway bar modified vehicle will likely go unnoticed by many inspectors. In my line of work, the only vehicles which get inspected are fatalities and suspicion accidents. Vehicle inspections are too expensive and time consuming to do on every accident. Any further questions about insurance coverage or liability needs to be directed to your individual insurance agent or family attorney. Let’s get back with the intention of this thread being, sway bars.

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XDreamMachinaX

· #35 · Jun 17, 2014

Thank you for clarifying...

Crashmaster said:
I was not trying to turn this thread into an insurance thread. I just wanted to make sure that people understand the liability when modifying their Crosstour. Suffice to say that when you modify your vehicle and it changes the handling, braking or steering to a point that causes an accident, it could easily make you liable for damages, including even after the sale of your vehicle. The amount of damages depends on what is written on your individual insurance contract, and in regards to a vehicle sale, disclosure.

Yes, most accidents on just a sway bar modified vehicle will likely go unnoticed by many inspectors. In my line of work, the only vehicles which get inspected are fatalities and suspicion accidents. Vehicle inspections are too expensive and time consuming to do on every accident. Any further questions about insurance coverage or liability needs to be directed to your individual insurance agent or family attorney. Let’s get back with the intention of this thread being, sway bars.

Crashmaster - THANK YOU!

I also had no intention to divert this thread to insurance liability claims either. I'm a driving enthusiast at heart, and I'd love my next Honda to handle as well as possible, just didn't want to lose my shirt over a simple, innocuous stiffer sway bar upgrade.

Thanks for the checking it out with your colleagues. I'll call my insurance agent (which I'm sure, will raise some flags) and ask to see what they will not cover, when I'm ready to do this upgrade.

BigVeh

· #36 · Jun 23, 2014

BigVeh said:
Hi! I installed the TL RSB too, and acura TL links! The links is longer than CT links and sway bar with it look better.

Hi!
I just returned back the OEM RSB this is my opinion about CT with Acura TL RSB:
Good
1. Better on turn
Bad
1. Harder on bad road
2. Not comfotable for me

XDreamMachinaX

· #37 · Jun 23, 2014

BigVeh said:
Hi!
I just returned back the OEM RSB this is my opinion about CT with Acura TL RSB:
Good
1. Better on turn
Bad
1. Harder on bad road
2. Not comfotable for me

Thanks for sharing.

How long did you have it on before changing it back? How "uncomfortable" was it? Do you have stock wheels, or did you already do a +1 upgrade to it?

BigVeh

· #38 · Jun 23, 2014

XDreamMachinaX said:
Thanks for sharing.

How long did you have it on before changing it back? How "uncomfortable" was it? Do you have stock wheels, or did you already do a +1 upgrade to it?

About 1.5 month!
The car has become tougher for small and medium bumps. There was a feeling short base.
I changed stock wheels for 19'.

XDreamMachinaX

· #39 · Jun 26, 2014

BigVeh said:
About 1.5 month!
The car has become tougher for small and medium bumps. There was a feeling short base.
I changed stock wheels for 19'.

Thanks for that additional info. I also hope to do the bigger wheel upgrade. Perhaps I'll just do the wheels and skip the sway bar.

GL84

· #40 · Jun 26, 2014

BigVeh said:
About 1.5 month!
The car has become tougher for small and medium bumps. There was a feeling short base.
I changed stock wheels for 19'.

I know bigger wheels are probably worse for MPG (due to weight), but how are they in terms of ride?

More Specifically:
- Riding Smooth Highway
- Riding Bumpy chopped up streets (like NYC)
- Riding in Rain / Snowy conditions?

Because if you get a bigger wheel, I'm assuming you're getting a smaller tire to maintain the overall diameter of the whole thing correct?

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