Suspension design problem causing cupping? - Honda Crosstour Forums
     Honda Crosstour Forums
Auto Insurance

Go Back   Honda Crosstour Forums > Honda CrossTour Forums > Wheels, Tires & Suspension

CrossTourOwnersClub.com is the premier Honda Crosstour Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2012, 06:55 PM   #1
kleenaxx
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1
Default Suspension design problem causing cupping?

First, let me say that I love our Crosstour!

Second, I want you tell you about a potential problem with the front suspension geometry causing premature (and excessive) wear on the tires, specifically the front right.

I would like to hear from the other Crosstour owners here that have had a front wheel bearing replaced, or a vibration problem, or premature cupping of the tires causing a need for new tires to be purchased. We have, and have had the front right wheel bearing replaced; TWICE!

The car now has 28,000 miles on it, has never been in an accident, (no, we haven't run into a curb or anything either.

We took it in for what felt like a front-end vibration at 17,000 miles that really sounded like a wheel bearing to me. Mind you, I was a mechanic and Service Super for 8 years, and do think I know how to diagnose this type of problem. The Honda dealership said that they could neither hear OR reproduce the sound, and that everything was fine. At this visit, we had the tires again rotated and an alignment done.

22,000 miles: took it back because the rhythmic sound was still there. I even had 2 other individuals drive it to make sure I wasn't imagining it. Dealership checked the tires, said they were fine, said the alignment was fine, and that there was no sound.

28,000 miles: took it in AGAIN because now, after a 1,800 mile road-trip, the sound REALLY became evident. Well, guess what? Now they agreed that it was a right-front wheel bearing failure and they replaced it......BACKWARDS! Yep; they had to take that bearing out and put another one in. They then checked the tires and stated on paper that they were 100% good.

As soon as I got in the car and drove it out of the dealership, it felt like there was a loose wheel on the car with a flat spot on it! I drove it over to a professional tire and alignment store and had both the 4-wheel alignment checked and the tires' balance checked. Both were WAY off! ARGH! If you dis-assemble the front suspension (read that replace a wheel bearing), you align the suspension!

Took the car back again, (less than 100 miles since the last visit), they now state that the tires are "bad" and need to be replaced, and that new tires would completely fix the bad noise/vibration.

"Cupping" of the right-front tire has caused this they say, and of course it's certainly not the tire manufacturer's fault for this. Ever price a new set of Michelin tires for your Crosstour? About $1200 here in Michigan.

Ever seen a dealership have a SUPPLY of front wheel bearings for the Crosstour IN-STOCK? Hmmmm.....


Anyone have any words of wisdom here?
kleenaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-24-2012, 07:26 PM   #2
Xaque
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western MA
Posts: 621
Default

That's very frustrating... at least you have that experience with service to know better!

I will say that I have not experienced any of these problems myself, nor do I recall anyone on the board having similar problems.
Xaque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2012, 08:20 PM   #3
Samsplace
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
Default

Ok 30k miles on the michelins and they are worthless. Noise, incredible, the tractor running down the road was quieter. Just put Cooper tires on, CS4 touring, what a difference, now for the interesting part, the camber on the car is out and they could not adjust this. they could adjust the toe in but not the camber, said it probably happened when they shipped the car and when they tied it down so tight then suddenly release all the tension it will spring the car.. what do you think? Either way taking it back to the dealer for a look. But this is my third set of Cooper tires and really like the them, they are quiet on the Ford 500 that I drive to work, got 70k on the first set.

This all may be related to your post
__________________
Metallic Grey 4wd
Outside of Raleigh NC
Samsplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2012, 10:31 PM   #4
Crashmaster
Super Moderator
 
Crashmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 306
Default

Viewed from the front of the vehicle, camber describes the inward or outward tilt of the tire. This tilt is referred to as positive or negative camber. The camber adjustment maximizes the tire-to-road contact and takes into account the changes of force when a vehicle is turning. Camber is the one adjustment that can be set according to driving habits. Generally, if you drive more aggressively when cornering, more negative camber can be set. If you drive on highways and do very little hard cornering, more positive camber can be set.


Certain tread designs are far more prone to chopping the edges. Large, blocky tread on the edges will do it quickly.

Infrequent, irregular tire rotation allows it to happen too, on almost any Front Wheel or All Wheel Drive Vehicle.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	helpPosNegCamber.gif
Views:	115
Size:	17.7 KB
ID:	786  
__________________
2012 CT w/NAV
ASE Master Tech
CSI Vehicle Forensics
Crashmaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 05:15 AM   #5
Samsplace
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 48
Default

That is somewhat how it was explained to me, but according to the technician who aligned the car there is no adjustment for this on the crosstour. Also, I had the tires rotated at every oil change which might be the problem, I change the oil by the maintenance minder which takes me out to nearly 10k miles.
__________________
Metallic Grey 4wd
Outside of Raleigh NC
Samsplace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:35 AM   #6
JubileeJack
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kleenaxx View Post
...Anyone have any words of wisdom here?
I had a wheel bearing replaced on a few month-old Subaru Legacy, it happens unfortunately. I would suggest working with the Service Manager of that dealership and recommend going 50/50 on the cost 2 new tires since the faulty bearing caused a premature wear of the tire and in addition to that, when you did get it fixed, it was incorrectly installed by that dealer 's technician thereby costing you valuable time and money (since you allegedly took time away from work to attend to this). Be polite and just present the case. I am told by my tire supplier that the only time a dealer will work w/ client on replacing tires under warranty is in cases where customer did everything required but the dealership/part was in the wrong/defective.

At the same time, ask someone else at that dealership for the email of the owner and when asked why, simply state you wish to express your appreciation of how your experience has been thus far. Yes it 's sneaky.

If the Service Manager turn out to be unreasonable, simple document what occurred names/dates) and how you offered to provide an reasonable solution which he declined. Send that email to Honda's North American Head Office and CC the owner. Despite this being a franchise business, owners do not like to look bad in the eyes of Head Office and will often make things happen under the Goodwill warrant or similar. I did that with Toyota circa 2005 and it worked wonders.

If the Service Manager is reasonable and you reach an agreement, also document how well s/he resolved this issue etc...s/he now owes you lots because that sort of stuff stands out in corporate memory.
JubileeJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 11:36 AM   #7
Crashmaster
Super Moderator
 
Crashmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 306
Default

There are sometimes that aftermarket does a better job than OEM. As for adjusting Camber on a Crosstour, Honda is correct, there is no adjustment. Well, better put is that there is no adjustment as per the factory.

There is a company that makes both a front and rear camber kit specifically for the Crosstour.

Specialty Products Company makes such a thing. You can check them out at: http://www.spcalignment.com/

When lowering an Accord or Crosstour, these camber kits are necessary. Their application catalog on line show parts for the 2010 – 2012 Crosstour. Below is a picture of how it works. Sort of like an offset ball joint.

This should probably solve your problem to give you the necessary camber.

BTW - Nothing wrong with rotating at every oil change. That is exactly what I do with my cars. Makes is much easier since the car is already on the lift.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	67330.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	19.8 KB
ID:	787   Click image for larger version

Name:	67330ill.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	39.3 KB
ID:	788  
__________________
2012 CT w/NAV
ASE Master Tech
CSI Vehicle Forensics

Last edited by Crashmaster; 06-25-2012 at 11:43 AM.
Crashmaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #8
davyboy
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
Default

Excesive angle due to ride height, causes premature halfshaft wear , so i've been told by an internal source.
davyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2012, 06:46 PM   #9
Mr. Grumpy
Member
 
Mr. Grumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 39
Default

Keyword- excessive....
Mr. Grumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2012, 07:15 PM   #10
bradley.patterson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
Default Cupped tires

I have a similar problem with my crosstour. The tires have about 40,000 KM on them and they are cupped. The tires make the ride very noisy even as low as 60km per hour. I rotated the tires as required and they still cupped. I am actually considering trading in as i dont want to spend $1500 on tires every 2 years.
bradley.patterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 02:30 PM   #11
Pinawah
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1
Default cupped tires

This is my first time in this site. I was scanning the net looking for others with the same cupping problem and looks like I found a few. I have a 2010 front wheel drive (bought in March 2011) with 50,000 km mostly highway. The tires have been bad for quite awhile, lots of noise. Like everyone else I bought the car because it was so much quieter than the Ford Edge I had, now it's worse than an old truck! I too rotated at every oil change, about 14,000km (10K miles).

Dealer did an alignment at about 42,000km, rotated the tires and sent me on my way. They said the noise should dissipate but it would take some wear for that to happen. Still noisy 10k later but not getting worse. Some days it seems better but could be I'm getting old and deaf What amazes me is it's even noisy when I trudge through 6" of snow on the highway at 60km/hr (35mph).

For those of you who have tried fixes, have any of them worked? Did you find good replacement tires. I read the fix on putting in a custom camber, did that work as it sounds radical for me?
Pinawah is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.